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> Bye Bye Arh Tigers It Seems, Mid 2020's OSD
Warhawk
  Posted: Feb 25 2016, 11:44 PM
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2016 White Paper,...

"The Government will replace the 22 Tiger Armed Reconnaissance helicopters with a new armed reconnaissance capability from the mid-2020s.

Not even up to full "happy" operation still,......since entering service 2005,..11 years on.

So money will be saved on the Mid Life update it seems will be better invested in a new Chopper, rather then flog this "old Waler" ala show pony

NB: Even if we had gone AH-64D, this model will be replaced and left unsupported from 2018 by the US Army and replaced by the newer AH-64E Guardian. So its academic if it was chosen years ago, but I say this,..it would have earned its spurs in the Ghan from 2010 had it been accepted

<_<
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Biggles81
Posted: Feb 26 2016, 01:47 PM
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Two years ago at a seminar an ARH pilot told me that the preferred plan for the Tiger MLU was fleet replacement with AH-64Es. From appearances this is the likely outcome after all. I certainly did not believe it at the time.
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Warhawk
Posted: Mar 21 2016, 07:34 PM
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Yeah,..but don't be spooked if they decide to follow the US Army per the latest news that they're "in planning" to start OH57D replacement program that they really want instead of a heavy AH-64E now being fielded in that role up to 2018. Years ago the nimble Stealth Comanche was the Program of choice to replace it. That was killed off.

As we all know, the OH-57D was retired recently and all Cavalry Units (Distinct to AH-64D/E equipped Attack Battalions) have started or have finished transiting to AH-64D/E in Regular Army Aviation Units. The Army National Guard Aviation Units, seemed to have lost most of their AH-64Ds and OH57Ds now,..and equipping with Lakotas.

Bottom line,....they're all rebuilt (US Army Parlance for it is "Recapitalised") or purchased new, the AH-64E is like using the mid life crisis BF Ford GT to collect the groceries from the corner shop, five minutes away in a 50KM Zone.

Guess that's the reason we went for the ARH Tigar, rather then the original Fulda Gap Plugger, AH-64A/D when the Rusky Tanks come a flooding over from East Germany in the 80's.

Gordy,..pondering as ever


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Biggles81
Posted: Mar 24 2016, 12:03 PM
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True, but don't forget the armed recce role has always been a fig leaf for Army to acquire its own close air support capability, which is much better embodied in the Apache than any OH-58 replacement program.

This post has been edited by Biggles81 on Mar 24 2016, 07:45 PM
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Luig
Posted: Jan 10 2017, 07:12 AM
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Will they - Won't they? Upgrade - hold that Tiger...

Early work under way on Tiger Mk III attack helicopter 06 Jan 2017 Dominic Perry

"Defence procurement body OCCAR is in the early stages of defining the Mk III mid-life upgrade for the Airbus Helicopters Tiger, but admits uncertainty over Australia’s participation.

Although OCCAR is a European body and Canberra is not even an associate member, as one of four customers for the Tiger, it was assumed it would join the Mk III effort.

But Australia has been highly critical of its 22-strong Tiger fleet and in a recent defence white paper suggested they could be phased out in the mid-2020s.

And, says Cyril Goutard, Tiger programme manager at OCCAR, work on the Mk III definition phase is being driven by the attack helicopter’s other three customers: France, Germany and Spain.

“We are discussing with Australia whether they will be part of that process,” he says.

Goutard says the work is currently in the “preparation phase” and is not yet an official programme. “Nations are starting to harmonise their requirements,” he says.

Development activities are due to start “before 2020”, with a decision on the firm configuration likely in 2018 or 2019 ahead of production in the mid-2020s.

Key upgrades will be to the helicopter’s avionics and weapons, notably replacement of the various anti-tank missiles, including the Lockheed Martin AGM-114 Hellfire and Rafael Spike, used by the Tiger’s European operators; it had been thought that a common missile standard was being sought.

“We need to change the missile, that is certain, but whether it is common or not, the nations will decide,” says Goutard...."

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/...elicopt-432948/
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Luig
Posted: Mar 2 2017, 08:48 PM
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Canberra sees the eye of the Tiger 27 Feb 2017 LSIS Helen Frank
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"HMAS Canberra has achieved another aviation milestone embarking two Army Tiger Armed Reconnaissance Helicopters for the first time.

The two Tigers, will join two MRH-90 Taipan medium lift helicopters and one MH-60R Seahawk conducting first of class flight trials onboard the amphibious giant over the next six weeks.

The trials are designed to find the safe operating limits of the helicopters during a variety of weather conditions, according to Lieutenant Grant Thaler, who will oversee the trials.

Lieutenant Thaler is a Flight Test Engineer from the Navy's Aircraft Maintenance and Flight Trials Unit, based at HMAS Albatross, in Nowra.

“I am looking forward to seeing just what we can achieve,” Lieutenant Thaler said.

“It is a very capable aircraft from a handling qualities perspective and its handling characteristics are favourable in quite extreme wind conditions; however, I am interested to see how it copes with pitch and roll on deck.

“It will also be exciting to see the MRH-90 Taipan, MH-60R Seahawk and the ARH Tiger all operating in an aviation battle group for the first time.”

The two helicopters are from 1st Aviation Regiment in Darwin, Northern Territory, and the Army School of Aviation in Oakey, Queensland.

The trials will be supported by three qualified test pilots from the Trials Unit, 1st Aviation Regiment and Army Aviation Test and Evaluation Section, as well as two flight test engineers.

“We are doing a full ship helicopter operating limitation development on all six flight deck spots,” Lieutenant Thaler said.

“We will also conduct emergency recoveries and other scenarios.”

Lieutenant Thaler said the primary role of the helicopter on land is as a reconnaissance aircraft.

When operating from a ship the helicopter would be used for forward scouting and as an escort for the MRH-90 Taipan helicopters.

The trials will be conducted over a six week period as Canberra operates off the east coast of Australia.

The ship will transit as far north as Townsville and then head south to Melbourne where the trials will conclude.

“Last year we conducted deck handling trials onboard sister ship HMAS Adelaide, and one of the first things we will do here is continue to validate the deck handling and ship interface elements from that first trial,” Lieutenant Thaler said.

“What we are doing at this stage is ensuring we are able to transit the aircraft around the ship, down the elevators and into the stowage places in the ship’s hangar.”

http://news.navy.gov.au/en/Jan2017/Fleet/3...f-the-Tiger.htm

JPG: "Leading Seaman Aviation Support Gabriella Hayllar directs a Tiger Armed Reconnaissance Helicopter onto the deck of HMAS Canberra to conduct First of Class Flight Trials." http://news.navy.gov.au/images/cache/746x4...e-000010060.jpg

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Warhawk
  Posted: Mar 18 2017, 03:11 PM
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On reading some stories lately,.....
I'd be interested if the Availability Rate has improved since that Audit for Australia.
Details ex France ,...... that the ALAT Tigres are down to 35% Availability,..despite they're just a FedEx Trip road trip away from the factory!!

Germany is returning some 13 Airframes ( No Cannons) back to the Manufacture, and France is stabilizing around 67 Airframes, therefore returning also a number perhaps. Spain is happy,...and then there is us.

Based on this alone,...there doesn't seem to be much heart in the program. France has only between 4-6 deployed at any one time abroad,.....so that's only 11 or 13.5% of the fleet. Dismal.

Economy of scale for a period when the Soviet Block was next door poised with 20000 Tanks was never reached.

Dare say,.......on consideration,.....that the supply of parts would impede on Operational Requirements if ever, god forbid,. we had to use them intensively.

Amazing

Gordy






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Grumpy Cobra
Posted: Mar 22 2017, 08:44 PM
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Availability of the LHD's might also be an issue...

I recall HMAS Kanimbla had a fire and lost power drifting close to North Head as she was sailing out of Sydney to conduct first of class Tiger flight trials back in 2010 which were then cancelled - fast forward 7 years later and HMAS Canberra has limped home from Queensland one week into a 6 week cruise during which they were conducting first of class flight trials with the Tiger, MH-60R and MRH-90! (2 Tigers, 1 MH-60R and 2 MRH-90 being embarked at the time).

I have read much on why we selected MRH-90 and Tiger helicopters and my conclusion is that it was a politically influenced choice intended to create the most jobs at the time.

Tiger helicopters seem to be very unlucky for Navy ships, or Navy ships seem to be very unlucky for Tiger helicopters...
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Luig
Posted: Mar 23 2017, 01:49 PM
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LHD Canberra, Tiger helo trials 21 Mar 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR2datwDC9k
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Luig
Posted: Apr 29 2017, 04:04 AM
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Luig
Posted: Apr 29 2017, 04:12 AM
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From the HATS pdf article in other thread.

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Luig
Posted: Apr 29 2017, 04:16 AM
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Same source

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