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Thanks From A Profile Artist, ADF Serials is a fantastic resource!

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Logan Hartke

Posted: Mar 8 2016, 05:15 PM

New User

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Member No.: 1,664
Joined: 12-August 08

Hey everyone, I've been lurking for nearly a decade now (about as long as I've been using the site), but I just wanted to express my thanks for how great of a site you guys run and how truly wonderful a resource the site is for a profile artist like me. I do mainly "what if" profiles, though I do base them very heavily on real world examples, right down to the nitty gritty details when possible. If only every military had a site of dedicated "train spotters" like you folks tying images to individuals and serial numbers for a given aircraft throughout its entire history. Your site really is a huge help to me whenever I'm depicting an Australian aircraft in my profile. In case anyone's wondering what I do with the research, here's an example:

http://beyondthesprues.com/Forum/index.php...04396#msg104396
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php/to....html#msg720936

QUOTE

Wow, first new art in my thread in 7 months and first completed profile in 9 months. That is shameful. I don't even have a convenient 9 month excuse like a new tiny human, either. I just lost inspiration during the latter half of the year, then life events ate up a lot of my time, followed by increased work responsibilities. Now, though, things are a little quieter and I had a nice softball of a request from MAD to get me back into the swing of things.

I'll let MAD cover the details of the backstory, but his request was for two AeroTAM L-239 Skorpions: one in ‘RAAF two-tone grey’, and the other in the ‘three-tone camouflage used by the Australian Army on its helicopter fleet (as seen on my Australian Army ‘Mil Mi-24V ‘Hind’ profile). With that as about all the direction I had, I set about trying to meet the request. In this case, the most difficult part of the profiles was picking the right squadrons to operate the units. I won't go into the details of why I felt 12 and 13 Sqns were the most suitable, but there were a lot of factors that went into the decision.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/loganov/Profiles/Frogfoot/900px/AustralianSkorpion1.jpg)

So, with this one, I was fortunate enough to find out that I'd already mounted ASRAAMs on the Indian Navy Skorpion profile that I did years ago. Why did I put ASRAAMs on the Indian Navy L-239 Skorpion? Haven't the foggiest. It was back in 2009, five years before the Indian Air Force signed a deal for them. Weirdly, the layer in that old profile is called "Magic", but the source image I imported it from is clearly called ASRAAM. They don't look anything alike, so I doubt I'd try to pass it off as a Magic. I really don't know. Regardless, I was happy to see that I had the ASRAAM already made up and ready to go. I told MAD that I wasn't going to be adding new ordnance for these profiles (although I did, anyway), so I didn't think he'd be getting the ASRAAMs he wanted. Since it was already done by me 7 years ago, I didn't have to do anything new. Add some drop tanks, HARMs, & JDAMs and call it a day, right? Well, not quite.

Just the gray scheme on the aircraft was boring by itself and the Hawk 127s that inspired this scheme had really pretty full color markings on the tail. But it would be lazy (and wouldn't make sense) to give the Skorpions to one of the Hawk or Hornet units. It's not like the RAAF has a lot of active squadrons to spare, or any combat squadrons that are in dire need of new equipment (that hasn't already been earmarked). That's alright, there's sure to be disbanded squadrons that I could use, or at least active ones that no longer fly aircraft. Once I picked one, I could figure out what markings to put on the tail. Well, I picked 13 Sqn (I had already selected 12 Sqn for the next profile), but there's just one problem: their unit markings are boring.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/raaf-sqns/13sqn.jpg

A compass rose and...horns? What am I even looking at? Should I care? What's their motto? "Resilient and Ready"? Snore. At least it reflects its current boring role of "Base Operations and Training". It's so boring that even the link to the squadron's website is broken. It wasn't always so boring, though. In WWII, they flew Hudsons, Beauforts, and Venturas. They also had this really cool unofficial squadron badge (although it is way too busy and ugly). Their unofficial WWII motto was also great! Yeah, I'm totally nicking that for the reformed combat unit.

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/ventura/13sqnjpg.jpg

Still, I've found two badges for the squadron, and they're both ugly and terrible. But, there was this...

http://militaria-sales.com.au/images/AM02806.jpg

An unofficial unit patch made up, well...I don't know. In fact, I know basically nothing about it other than it was unofficial and for 13 Sqn RAAF. I have no idea of timeframe (80s, 90s, early 2000s?), origin or use, but at least it looks cool, so I'll nick that, too. Rework it for the tail, come up with a ribbon for it on the tail, redo the font, and call this one done.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/loganov/Profiles/Frogfoot/Detail/AustralianSkorpion1_detail.jpg)

Now, on to the next one. This is the camo that I loved from back when I did the Australian Army Mi-24V Hind eight (eight!?!? geez...) years ago. I still think it's one of the world's best looking camo schemes in the world.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/loganov/Profiles/Mi-24%20Hind/900px/AussieHind1Small.jpg)

I still like the way this one looks, but the details do bug me. The colors are a bit more attractive, but they're not totally correct. I probably just eyeballed them. So, I went looking for a little more accurate, more official values. I found some online with nice FS values. I plugged those in and...didn't much like the results. They looked too dark to me. I thought my old 2008 eyeball ones were a lot pretties and semed to look more like the pictures to me in certain lighting conditions, but were probably too bright. So, I split the difference and was actually pretty happy with the result. That's what I ended up using on the second Australian Frogfoot.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/loganov/Profiles/Scrapbook/RAAF-Army.jpg)

The paint scheme is actually from the old Australian Army GAF Nomad. Well, actually, most Nomads had a completely different, far more complex paint scheme consisting of the same colors, but a lot smaller bands. It's attractive, but "ain't nobody got time for that". I also doubt anyone in the RAAF would go to that sort of trouble painting and doing the upkeep on a fleet of aircraft with that sort of scheme today. It doesn't even fit in with the current Australian Army helicopter's fleet scheme, either, as you can see here:

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albu...Doug_Mackay.jpg

It's pretty, just really busy, really complicated, and doesn't really match the other aircraft flown by the Australian Army in those colors. One Nomad, though, dared to be different. A18-309 wasn't painted like the rest of the Nomad fleet. Ironically, in being different, it was a lot more similar to the helicopters it operated with. I quite liked it and I adapted that scheme to the Frogfoot, roughly.

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albu...e_Hutchison.jpg

In most cases, the underside of the wings and horizontal tail were left in just tan and not camouflaged. I also had a few detail markings that I took from other aircraft, too. I took the style of unit marking on the tail from this old RAAF Caribou...

http://www.16right.com/MessageBoard/Milita...%2019881014.jpg

...but the actual marking itself is the old 12 Sqn marking found on the unit's badge and on the tail of their Chinooks, before the ADF decided it didn't need Chinooks anymore, which was before they decided they needed Chinooks again, which was before the most recent decision to get more Chinooks. In fairness to the ADF, the Canadians had the same "Baby Come Back" moment with the Chinook. "I was wrong, and I just can't live without you." So, I just low-vis'ed the marking and slapped it in the low-vis band from the Caribou. Finally, there's a detail on the nose that you might miss if I don't mention it. That's the name "Dianne". It's subtle, but it's a reference to the old 12 Sqn Vengeances that they flew in WWII.

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~maav/vulteeligh...mages/vult1.jpg

It's not without precedent, either, as the ADF's Blackhawks carry a name above the cockpit. They look good, too, except that the font looks like Comic Sans. No, not on my profile. We'll use the original, classy script from the Vultee Vengeance A27-209.

http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/albu...22/IMG_2783.jpg

That's got to be about it, right? Almost. The drop tank paint scheme also came from the Blackhawk, and I went with more of a CAS loadout here, since it would naturally be supporting ground forces in that paint scheme. Give it LGBs, Mavericks, ASRAAMs, and rocket pods. Normally, I just stick with the B-8M1 rocket pods that I already had for the Su-39 and hand wave it away, but I didn't feel like that would do here. I took a couple of anachronistic 2.75 inch rocket pods (LAU-3, if I recall correctly) and mocked up a crude TER to mount them on. Given how simple rocket pods are and how low of a resolution these eight year old Frogfoot profiles are, I thought it turned out just fine. I sure can't spot the differences between these and newer rocket pods at that size. They look more plausible than the B-8M1s, that's for sure.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/loganov/Profiles/Frogfoot/900px/AustralianSkorpion2.jpg)

Anyway, I hope you all like them. You can see what all goes into just the thought process behind all the details that go into each profile that many people would never even notice at a glance. I agonize way too long over all of these details, so you can see why each profile can take so long. I didn't even go into the hours of research that I put into studying the candidate squadrons for these and why I ruled out all the other potential squadrons for one reason or another.

By the way, I just wanted to give a shout out to the ADF Serials website. What a fanstastic site! I've been using it for years, but I wanted to make sure other people knew about it. It really is fantastic.

(IMG:http://www.adf-serials.com.au/adf-serials.png)

Again, though, what is it with the ADF and Comic Sans? I can't seem to get away from it.

Cheers,

Logan

Dave Masterson	Posted: Mar 11 2016, 12:12 PM
C-17A Globemaster III (A41) Group: Members Posts: 528 Member No.: 25 Joined: 24-June 05	Excellent Logan...thanks for posting. I like the "What if"" schemes...I tried to register on your Modellers site but it say that registration is disabled? This post has been edited by Dave Masterson on Mar 11 2016, 12:14 PM

Logan Hartke	Posted: Mar 13 2016, 06:32 AM
New User Group: Members Posts: 3 Member No.: 1,664 Joined: 12-August 08	Thanks, Dave! I just wanted to let your team know that the work on your site is greatly appreciated by folks like me using it as a resource and reference for our work. I think the What If Forums temporarily disable registrations from time to time when they're getting bombarded by spammers. It should be back up soonish, but I really on't know. The Beyond the Sprues forum should let you register no problem, though. Cheers, Logan

Warhawk	Posted: Mar 16 2016, 06:40 PM
ADF Serials Research Co-ord Group: ADF Serials Admin Posts: 1,981 Member No.: 82 Joined: 9-March 06	Indeed "what if?" Zero in RAAF Service 1941,..very real,..but way out left field Story somewhere in our 2006 Newsletter bank,..true story regarding ,.. "maybe" As for the Hind in Oz Colours,..two arrived and were held at Tindal after being seised by Customs, were actually imported for PNG when they were dealing with Bougainville crisis in the 90's. Imported by a South Africa Privateers . Wonder what happen to them??? Truth is sometimes stranger then fiction, eh Gordy Attached Image

Dave Masterson	Posted: Mar 17 2016, 09:31 AM
C-17A Globemaster III (A41) Group: Members Posts: 528 Member No.: 25 Joined: 24-June 05	Like the look of the Zero Gordy :D

Dave Masterson	Posted: Mar 17 2016, 09:35 AM
C-17A Globemaster III (A41) Group: Members Posts: 528 Member No.: 25 Joined: 24-June 05	What is the whacking great lump on the nose of this caribou...paint job..or am I seeing things? Attached Image

aeromend	Posted: Mar 17 2016, 07:12 PM
Hawker Demon (A1) Group: Members Posts: 15 Member No.: 7,440 Joined: 12-February 14	Hi That is a mark left by the "Remove Before Flight" tag on the static vent port. Yes it does look like a lump in that photo. Cheers Ian C

Logan Hartke

Posted: Mar 19 2016, 03:00 PM

New User

Group: Members
Posts: 3
Member No.: 1,664
Joined: 12-August 08

QUOTE (Warhawk @ Mar 16 2016, 06:40 PM)

Indeed "what if?" Zero in RAAF Service 1941,..very real,..but way out left field

Story somewhere in our 2006 Newsletter bank,..true story regarding ,..
"maybe"

As for the Hind in Oz Colours,..two arrived and were held at Tindal after being seised by Customs, were actually imported for PNG when they were dealing with Bougainville crisis in the 90's. Imported by a South Africa Privateers .

Wonder what happen to them???

Truth is sometimes stranger then fiction, eh

Gordy

That is neat! I never knew that story about the Hinds. Grubby Fingers was also working on a model of the Hind in those same colors, so I think it's something that a few folks like the look of. And who knows? With the investigations into getting rid of the Tigers and replacing them with a different attack helicopter...well, Russia's still building Mi-35s!

The Zero's neat. I have a number of WWII-era "what if" Australian profiles, too—including a hypothetical captured Heinkel He 100.

(IMG:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/loganov/Profiles/Heinkel%20He%20100/900px/AustralianHe100D1.jpg)

Gibbes' Australian Heinkel He 100D-4 Trop RAAF on DeviantArt

Cheers,

Logan

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